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Archived Postings on This Page from 2007 and Earlier (121): Please let me know the best EECP/ACT practioners
in Chennai, India. I have recently undergone angiography and it appears
I need bypass surgery. I am
interested to have EECP. What doctors or facilities in central Alabama
(Montgomery or Birmingham) use EECP? If not in Alabama, what would be the
closest facility? Hi, I'm a student doing EECP market research.
If you took this treatment before or you're doing it right now, could
you pls tell me your experience during the treatment? You can send your
story
to suzy.susu@gmail.com. Thanks so much
for your help. What are the centres in Bangalore providing ECP? my cardiologist suggested eecp.....does any one
know if this tratment
is offered in the toronto, canada area? thank you. We (Dr.S.S.Sibia and Dr.Mrs.Harpreet Kaur Sibia)
at Sibia medical Centre, Ludhiana are in Preventive cardiology since long
and have been doing Artery Clearance
Therapy (ACT) [which is our registered trademark with copyrighted literature]
since 1994 and External Counter Pulsation (ECP EECP) since 2002. Being the
first and the most experienced centre in India we have no doubt that ACT
and ECP will
play a major role in cardiology practice in future. Let me know which EECP machine works better china
made over USA made?
What
is difference in the working in both & cost?Which one is superior ? Where to
get best literature about this subject. Thanking you sir. Subject: Audio Commentary on External Counter
Pulsation Therapy Abstract. Click on link shown below. Scroll down to third
author in Tour 6 segment i.e.,
Alon
Barsheshet. "The Effect of External Counter Pulsation Therapy on Circulating
Endothelial
Progenitor Cells in Patients with Angina Pectoris." Short but very IMPORTANT!
After
clicking on the "View Poster" link and listening>to audio comments, abstract
of study may be viewed on the PDF link. (http://astute.cardiosource.com/2007/vposters) I am a physician & want to establish ECP
therapy at my centre. what is its actual cost. is tmt & ecocardiography
is a must with this procedure. what is the success rate in comparison to
angioplasty.whether USA or China machine is better. Thanks. More Evidence of EECP's Ability to Reverse
Endothelial Dysfunction: "Enhanced
External Counterpulsation Inhibits Intimal Hyperplasia by Modifying Shear
Stress-Responsive Gene Expression
in Hypercholesterolemic Pigs" -- Zhang et al., 10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.106.647248
-- Circulation. ECP is great, we have three machines at our centre.
The results are better when combined with Artery Clearance Therapy (ACT).
- Dr.Sibia There is a non-invasive
alternative to the carotid artery stenting procedure. It should be considered
in those instances where the patient
has also been diagnosed with Class III or IV angina associated with
ischemic heart disease and therefore would be reimbursed by Medicare
or CMS. It is well established as a safe and effective procedure for
improviong circulation which then relieves the symptoms of angina.
Now, a
new study from Europe shows clear and unique patient benefits for
carotid artery circulation with this procedure (Enhanced External Counterpulsation
or EECP) that would not be possible with carotid artery bare metal
or DES stenting Melissa, Freeburg,
IL: Melissa, I receive my EECP treatments at Cardiology Consultants
in Belleville, IL. Freeburg
is not very far Belleville so you might want to call them. If you want
someone further South in Illinois you might want to email your question
to www.vasomedical.com. They will be happy to inform you of any additional
EECP provider sites in Southern Illinois if they have any. Good luck! what doctors in southern illinois use eecp? EECP/Erectile Dysfunction Article Selected
as Editor's Choice in International Journal of Clinical Practice. To
access this entire article go to www.ijcp.org where it may be read
FREE! Is there a treatment facility for EECP in
Singapore or Malaysia that provides treatment at a reasonable cost.
I am an Australian seeking EECP treatment. Singapore
is the nearest place that provides treatment. My enquiries so far suggest the
cost could be about $130USD (or RM450.00) per session. I am looking for something
cheaper than that. Also somewhere that will provide treatment on a "per session" basis,
rather than 1000's of $$ up front. Or, am I asking too much? Thanks, John S.
email:ngcs@iinet.com.au An interesting ECP Study in Israel While
this study has been completed, I have had no success in finding out
what conclusions were reached. If the results are eventually published
and shown to be positive, then the cardiology community should be
compelled to reassess the true potential of this technology. While
Vasomedical
(EECP) was not previously aware of this particular study, their chief
technology officer was already engaged in the same kind of study
in the United States. Here is the link: http://clinicaltrials.gov/show/NCT00272571 Dear Mr. John S, We have our machine installed
in leading hospital of India/Delhi and till now we have treated more
than 500 patients in our centres.
You can top up your treatment visit with some wonderful tourism sights in India.
For more information about us visit our website www.yatimediquip.com Could anyone recommend a good EECP clinic
in India or China? Which country offers the best treatment? Someone
with first hand experience of treatment at a particular facility
would be a great help on this. I am thinking about treatment for my
stable
angina (on exertion)- general exercise doesn't seem to help much.
Or, if anyone has heard of EECP being available in Ausralia I would
like
to know about it - I can't find any here. My Dr. here in fact asked
me what EECP was
- he had never heard about it. Also, some of the EECP machines have 4 sets
of cuffs - an extra pair for the arms. Are these machines more effective
than
the older 3-set type? I just wonder what technology improvements
have
been made with EECP machines in recent years. China first developed
the machines - I wonder if better, more up-to-date, treatment is
available there? Thanks guys. Sir, If EECP machine can exchange the advantage
of angioplasty than It
is worth to see & avail. I am a Physician.Whether I can start EECP at my place
with out any training or certificate. Kindly let me know in
details. .What
is its cost? Thanks. Dear Dr. A Shivpuri, you have not mention
your contact details in your message. It is not right to give you
price related info on the bulletien board itself. please visit:www.healthgiving.cn or www.eecp-china.com to learn more informations
about new EECP & ECP machine shaochunzhou@hotmail.com dachunzhou@hotmail.com Dear Doctor from Turkey, There is absolutely
no difference between a machine from Chine,USA or India. Every manufacturer
will try to convince you that his product is better than others in
some way or other. But what you can look for before purchasing the
machine is the main features of machine and its safety features especially.
And assess yourself what kind of after sale service you
will be getting. Any thoughts of whether having a hiatal hernia
may make for a problem having EECP. Having had 35 treatments, I remember
vividly the amount of pressure
pushed upward every few seconds, day after day, especially by the top half
of the large leg suit you wear, which goes almost to your diaphragm.
Really causes
your organs, stomach, etc., to push up toward your diaphragm with great pressure.
As such, a hiatal hernia defined, is, in effect the stomach or other upper
GI organs pushing through or even against your diaphragm, then pushing
the diaphragm
further towards even the lower part of the heart. One must keep in mind the
general non-cardiac pain in the chest this could cause over weeks,
if you have a bad
hiatal hernia and EECP. And also, the diastolic function of the heart requires
its space to inflate to take in blood. I would suggest folks see if they have
a hiatal hernia, if after some 14 treatments you still have chest pain, or
it is getting worse. Hiatal hernia itself very often feels like angina,
even if
unrelated to the heart. Also, in studies, hiatal hernia and severe GERD have
actually been shown to separately affect heart function and ekg readings. And
hiatal hernia affects most middle age men, about 75%, though usually not symptomatic,
can be made symptomatic with blows to the diaphragm; which it seems EECP does
cause. Hiatal hernia studies are often totally noninvasive, easy, cheap, and
always paid by insurance. There about 3 types of Hiatal hernia studies. And
there are well proven surgery techniques, with proven cures for hiatal
hernia, but
make sure you have a good and experienced surgeon. If you are OK in the studies,
then everyone should try EECP, and perhaps do one round each year. But EECP
is a very good therapy to try if one has no problematic Hiatal Hernia.
Interesting,
there is nothing in the EECP literature about this relationship. There should
be. Gastro doctors would be very interested in what their patients are up to
in the EECP rooms. Any thoughts or info from anyone? I like the EECP machine.If it is really have
the advantages you narrated than I would like to purchase. Kindly tell
me its actual price & you have to demonstrate its working at my place.
Thanking you sir. Hi All! I have two EECP systems that we want
to sell. Located in the US As a further follow up to the results of
my 35 sessions of EECP, I am pleased to note that my blood pressure
has gone down from an average of 135/85 to 125/65. And most surprising
of all, at 62 years of age, I now have some difficulty sleeping at
night because of constant erections that remind me of when I was
in my teens and twenties. I guess the blood is flowing quite well. Rehana Mushtaq Heart Clinic is dealing with
complicated cases of cardiomyopathy and all other diseases of the heart,
since 1993, in Lahore, Pakistan.You can
contact Dr javaid sabzwari on 03334227772 or syedjavaidmushtaq@hotmail.com
or Rehana
Mushtaq Heart Clinic, 1-G, Model Town, Lahore, Pakistan. As a follow-up to my previous
post stating
that I was in the middle of my 35 sessions of EECP therapy, I am pleased
to announce that I have completed the therapy and I am very pleased.
My energy level and sense of well being are fantastic. I play tennis
every day for two to three hours and do not get the least bit winded.
Prior to this therapy, I had three DES inserted in my LAD and after
reading the potential damage that seems to be occurring from the medication
on the stent to surrounding small capillaries that are the building
block of all new collaterals, I felt this therapy could potentially
help mitigate that damage and help build new collaterals before the
medication killed all of the surrounding capillaries. I also wanted
to attempt to grow new collaterals around a 60% blockage in my RCA.
Only time will tell, but I know that I will continue to take this therapy
once a year (less sessions-about 15). It certainly cannot hurt..it
is non-invasive and has offered nothing but positive side effects in
my case. G.K., Istanbul, Turkey, I am not an EECP technician but I know they will
do most of the research on the technology and if you have a problem, they offer
great customer support. I also know that they have sold about 70% or more of
the machines that are in use in the United States. I have received the 35 hour
course for 4 years in a row and and will undergo a 5th course of treatment later
this Spring or early Summer. You can get a good idea about the quality of their
product by evaluating the quality of their website. Go to www.vasomedical.com
and click
on their educational video on EECP, "Straight From the Heart" which you can
watch right from your computer which is very well done and very helpful to
anyone who
wants to know more about EECP. Their website will direct their attention to
the needs of physicians, investors and patients. They have a large and impressive
bibliography of EECP studies done by cardiologists. Please check it out and
see
for yourself. I AM A MEDICAL DOCTOR IN TURKEY I WANT TO
IMPORT EECP PRODUCT TO MY COUNTRY. I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IS THERE
ANY DIFFRENCE IN EECP MACHINES MADE IN USA, CHINA AND INDIA. IS THERE
ANY
METHOD TO ASSESS THE QUALITY OF THE ECP MACHINE. Hi all. We seem to be getting many postings
from people selling or looking to buy ECP machines. We may just have
to start charging for these "classified" -- but what we're
really interested in is patients who have had ECP or EECP therapy and
what their results
were? We're getting quite a few business postings from India -- certainly
there must be some patients in India with some stories. Please post
your experiences with ECO/EECP. visit my website cardiopulseindia.com for good quality ecp machine I work at the largest EECP center in the
USA and i can tell you first hand, EECP does cure heart disease,
You'll never get a stroke, and you might not have diabetes, you might
start
standing and walking again, you'll start exercising, you'll throw
your medications away, you'll cure your erectile dysfunction, you'll
exercise
longer, most importantly you'll live a healthy long life manufacturers
please email me products and prices of EECP beds and parts thank
you mark@globalcardiocareinc.com Hi ! for high quality ECP machines in Delhi/India
visit our website www.yatimediquip.com Terrel Brown:
If you don't mind relating this, what were your symptoms prior to EECP
- did you have a history
of heart disease, diabetes, hypertension? When did you begin to feel
the EECP treatments were beneficial and you started feeling better?
I've started my 2nd EECP set - first set was 15 months ago. I hope
this time there's an improvement where I can say "I fell better!",
but I sometimes feel it's all a crapshoot - some you win, some you
don't. hello, i am interested in buying one ecp machine
made in india. is there a possibility to manufacture ecp machine in
india. can any one provide the necessary
technology. please mail me the details. dr ashok my email id is jak123_dr@yahoo.co.in dr. solly, kindly send us your contact details
at rrsrmd@sify.com (RMD Mediaids Pvt. Ltd., Delhi), so that we
can send you the necessary details. mamta i want to know the cost of eecp machine I am currently taking the 35 EECP treatments.
Isn't it too bad that cardiologists seems to be more interested in
surgery than a non-invasive alternative. This FDA approved procedure
is non-invasive and has over 80% success rate in relieving angina and
corresponding chest pains. I completed my 35 sessions today, and I feel
great. I lost 22 pounds along the way, and the angina is simply gone.
I walked/jogged 2 miles on my treadmill
today, and this past Thanksgiving I couldn't even tie my shoes without chest
pain. For me, EECP is a Godsend. It works. I have a end of lease eecp system available
- Is anyone interested? Manufacturer
EECP Hi ! for high quality ECP machines in Delhi/India
visit our website www.yatimediquip.com "What tests are needed to determine eligibility for EECP treatment?" In
my case, I first consulted an internist friend and asked him which non-invasive
tests, if any, I could seek to confirm my eligibility. He suggested a treadmill
and a thallium scan. When I showed up at the hospital with script in hand, the
cardiologist, with no knowledge whatsoever of EECP, was livid. He told me: "You
don't tell us what tests you want, we tell you!". This cardiologist wanted to
do a $7,000.00 angiogram on me instead. I was already aware of the fact that
1 in 1,000 angiograms can cause death, right on the spot -- so I just dug in
my heels and refused. Finally, he called my doctor who told him to give me what
I wanted -- and so he did. That's how I was able to bypass their "game" and get
the safe, effective, non-invasive EECP treatment that I wanted. It's just my
opinion, but I don't believe anyone can can ever get an angiogram and then be
referred for EECP treatment. In fact, you have to sign a release before you receive
an angiogram giving them permission to do whatever they feel is necessary to
save your life in the event that you have an "event" during the angiogram.
That "event" generally occurs when a vascular lesion's clot or scab is dislodged
and so, in the process of hunting for blockages, they can actually CAUSE
a blockage that is so serious that it an disrupt or stop your heartbeat and
then,
of course,
it is mandatory that you be operated on immediately. When this happens, 1
to 3 patients out of every hundred will die during or shortly after surgery!!!
To make this more understandable, remember that the cost for an EECP treatment
is
generally less that the sales tax for a bypass surgery. Reimbursements for
EECP treatment are, IMO, shamefully inadequate considering what the physicians
have
to provide for the benefits the patients actually receive. If I were a cardiologist,
I would probably feel the same as they do. But, I am a patient and a patient
has to do what a patient has
to do --- if he wants to live. email: postman23_2000@yahoo.com My wife, Penny has unstable angina and has
been diagnosed with Coronary Artery Spasms, after, of course, she had
4 stents put in 11-7-05. She has had 4 more stents due to restenosis
on 8-4-06. One of her stents is considered fractured following another
heart cath done on 10-13 06. She is currently on a Calcium Channel
blocker along with a nitro patch and daily nitro pill. Her doctor recently
tried to take her off the CCB but her angina was unbearable without
it. We are wondering if EECP would help her condition and if she would
be considered "eligible" because
of her unstable angina? Mr Suresh, ECP is essentially a technique
developed by Chinese. The machines that you may get from US may be
manufactured in China or there may be some manufacturer
in US. The technology in both the cases remains the same. What tests are needed before you are considered
acceptable for EECP? I AM INTERESTED IN BUYING A ECP MACHINE. I
WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IS THERE ANY DIFFRENCE IN ECP MACHINES MADE IN
USA, CHINA AND INDIA. IS THERE ANY METHOD
TO ASSESS THE QUALITY OF THE ECP MACHINE? Dr.Ghadiyali, we at RMDMediaids, Delhi are
the reputed suppliers of SECP machine in India. We have supplied 14
machines in SAARC region in a short span of 3 years. The machine is
sourced from the manufacturers in China and is available at competitive
rates. If interested feel free to contact at our email add:rrsrmd@sify.com,
info@rmdmediaids.com I am interested in buying a ECP machine.any
sales centre in delhi or banglore. my
email is rrsuresh_cardiab@yahoo.co.in Hi, I am an EECP therapist and I have to
say that over the past 2 years here I have had over 30 patients go
through the program here(That I have helped) and I can say that the
outcome in many of the cases were a success. I have had patients
tell me it has changed there life., Whether it be an improvement in
chest
pain, shortness of breath etc. these patients are thrilled that there
is an non-invasive way to try and help them. Yes,a smaller percentage
of patients here have not gotten the full benefit of the treatments,
meaning they have seen little change from start to finish. Several
of my patients have returned because they would like to do the treatment
again, they say it helps them so much. Currently one of our patients
could not walk up her driveway because she was getting so short of
breath and having CP. 3 weeks into the treatments she is walking
up her driveway with no problems. I currently have six patients on
the
machine during the day. They are all at least in there 3rd week.
Only one patient has not seen a significant change. The rest have more
energy
and are feeling less symptomatic. Hope this helps to anyone started
EECP or anyone who is thinking about it. For that 20-25% of patients who fail to achieve any improvement in their angina after EECP and are still willing to take a second course, they might want to discuss this study with their doctor before they do so:
Gerald Oros, Collinsville, Illinois, USA, November 3, 2006 A Ray of hope for Heart patients -- Macter
International (Pvt) Limited. First time introduces the breakthrough
non-surgical treatment Enhanced External Counter Pulsation (EECP)
in Pakistan with collaboration with Vasomedical, Inc, USA, which is
currently
available at the Cardiology unit of The Kidney Center Karachi and
officially inaugurated by honorable secretary Health Sindh Prof. Dr.
Noshad Ahmed
Shaikh on 07th August 2006. -- EECP is an US-FDA approved non-surgical
treatment and highly affordable out-patient therapy for the treatment
of diseases of the cardiovascular system. -- EECP will prove to be
a blessing for all those patients who, even after going through painful
procedures of angioplasty and bypass, were not able to find a lasting
cure to their illness. -- EECP is administered in out-patient basis
for one hour per day for 35 hours .During this treatment patient
has to lie comfortably on a special therapy bed and a series of pneumatic
cuffs are wrapped around the patient s leg, thigh including buttocks.
The Patient is hooked to an ECG machine so the cuffs inflate and
deflate
in synchronization with heartbeat .During the heart resting phase,
when it receives its blood supply, the cuffs rapidly inflate, pushing
oxygen rich blood towards heart. Just before the heart begins to
pump again, the cuffs rapidly deflate and blood leaves the heart without
the muscle having to work as hard. -- EECP therapy gives benefits
to
heart patients by increasing new vessel growth in the heart muscle
through the stimulation of specialized cells in the lining of the
vessel wall, causing release of Growth factors. Data from the large
international
EECP patient registry (IEPR) USA indicates EECP provides both short-term
and long term relief of angina and heart failure symptoms and increases
the exercise tolerance and improves quality of life. -- For more
information please visit our EECP center at The Cardiology Unit of
The Kidney center
Karachi or log on our website www.eecp.com.pk or mailto eecp@macter.com
or call Dr. B. M. Rathore 92-21-8250386, 0334-3657884 To:
Barbara S., California,. I am a 56 year
old female - 6x bypass in October 2003 - 5 stents since that time because
of re-closure. I could not exercise because of the angina was taking
approx 3 nitros a day plus wearing a nitro patch. I underwent the EECP
treatments last year this time. WOW-what a difference! I still wear
the patch, but I go weeks to months without the extra nitros. Having
the
EECP treatments was the best move that I have made. During some routine research, I discovered
this site and wanted to clarify some misinformation. The original FDA
clearance of ECP for Cardiomedics was obtained on September 18, 1987
via premarket notification K872034. Clinical study results were required
to obtain FDA's market release of the indications for use. Please visit
this URL for more information: http://www.schwoebel.biz/site/K872034_Cardiomedics_Counterpulsation.jpg I want to purchase an EECP machine. So please
give me complete view and price about this. plz call are invite from
only india . name vikas sethia (rajasthan
) india ph.919829045630 HP -- links have been corrected as you requested. Thank
for providing all the information! Please could you note that the correct address
for the EECP blog is http://eecpeurope.blogspot.com.
I must have been asleep when posting last time! Apologies. I have completed a 35 hour course of EECP
treatment in the UK in the last 3 months with very good results. I
am convinced that EECP is very good value
for money for public health services in Europe because of the improvement in
quality of life it brings at comparatively low cost. I found a lot of the medical
description of EECP difficult to follow, partly because the processes affected
by it are themselves quite complex. I have thus attempted to describe EECP
and my (very positive) experience in a blog (see http://eecpeurope.blogspot.com).
I hope this is of some help to others contemplating its use. I am practicing as Non-invasive Cardiologist
and doing Chelation Therapy also. I am finding excellent results in
more than 90% Cardiac patients. Now I am interested in EECP for giving
Non-surgical revascularization therapy. I am inviting all EECP manu./marketing
companies to contact us on hccjbp@yahoo.co.in Robert -- ECP is the generic term, EECP® is
a registered trademark of Vasomedical Inc. who makes the equipment. Is there a significant difference between
ECP and EECP? At first glance they appear to be computer-controlled
pulses regulated by heartbeat. My first experience with it resulted
in less than my expectations, but it may have also been technique.
I may investigate this again with an EECH provider. My stem cell
trial results may be nil; after three months my treadmill tolerance
is pretty
much the same. I miss those 3 mile walks in the fall... My husband had a triple bypass this past
January. Several months later, he was back in the hospital and we discovered
one of the bypassed arteries was blocked up again by 90%. His cardiologist
tried to do angioplasty but was unsuccessful due to the artery being
kinked and curved, so he suggested EECP. My husband did the 35 treatments
and has shown NO improvement whatsoever. He is still short of breath
and has chest pain. I don't know what is next but when he goes to see
his cardiologist in a few weeks I will ask what we can do so he can
once again have some quality of life. He is just 52 years old and I
am very very worried. I am a FIRM believer in the EECP process.
I'm starting my third (3rd) set of 35 treatments on Monday 28 AUG.
It has helped me each year I have had it. I had a quad bypass, which
2 of the 4 have since blocked. I get the same "burning" feeling each
time. This alerts me for my need of treatments. They have gone away
each time so far. I PRAY that they go away this time too. It does cost
me some....Insurance pays most. I suggest that anyone who thinks that
it may help.....DO IT and see. Best of luck. I wanna live long past
my
present age of 50. Please and Thanx,
Bogie To: Steven G, Palm Beach, FL. Your post of August 5, 2006 describes how your angina has not improved at all after a 35 hour course of EECP treatment. CMS and most insurance companies will pay for this condition if you have Class III or IV stable angina and in many states they will pay for an additional 10 hours or a total of 45 hours of treatment if you fail to show any improvement. This may be what you need the next time you take the treatment. I think it would help you enormously if if pick up a copy of "Heal Your Heart with EECP" by Dr. Debra Braverman, M.D. It would also help if you take the time to carefully read the highlighted link in the post directly below your own. Emerging evidence suggests that endothelial dysfunction sets the stage for ischemic heart disease with the shortness of breath and heart pain that are seen in angina. It has been repeatedly shown that EECP can significantly improve endothelial function and many now believe this is one of the ways EECP works to help to reduce angina symptoms by 1-2 classes with 35 hours of treatment. If you fail to respond to EECP it is probably because
you require more hours of treatment and/or you and your physician have not
addressed your other cardiac risk factors sufficiently to get them under
control. Coffee
drinking before treatment is now said to interfere with treatment results
and is now prohibited at my clinic. If you're drinking, smoking, failing to
exercise
and not following a heart healthy diet. your results will almost certainly
be less than if you were following a healthy lifestyle. If you have any other
questions
I will be happy to try and answer them. To: Barbara S California "I am looking at the EECP treatment and would like to hear from anyone who has had this 35 treatment course. It's very expensive and I will probably have to battle my insurance company for approval. " Well, perhaps I can help.. I have had the 35 hour treatment annually for the past 4 years and it always helps me. My own case is complicated by severe osteoarthritis of the knees and peripheral artery disease which prevents me from exercising as much as I would like. Initially, I had heart pain daily but my primary complaint was shortness of breath. Today, the heart pain has almost disappeared even with exertion and while shortness of breath is my primary side effect, that too, has greatly improved. I require no nitroglycerine pills but many successful EECP patients may still have to take 1 or 2 on a bad day. I attribute my good results to the annual treatments which I will continue as long as possible. Some states such as California will pay for as many bypass surgeries and/or angioplasties as you can tolerate but the last time I checked they will pay for only 1 x 35 hour course of EECP in a patient's lifetime....Hopefully, this will change in the near future as EECP IS NOT VERY EXPENSIVE AS YOU MISTAKENLY ASSERT. IN FACT, NON-INVASIVE EECP IS FAR LESS EXPENSIVE (1/10TH) THAN INVASIVE BYPASS SURGERY AND ABOUT 1/5th AS EXPENSIVE AS AN INVASIVE SINGLE STENT PROCEDURE. Whoever told you otherwise was gravely misinformed. I urge you to purchase and/or read the only book on EECP written for the general public. "Heal Your Heart with EECP" by Debra Braverman, MD. It is excellent and easy to understand. It is vital that you know what you're talking about when you request this treatment from your doctor. Your chances of getting his immediate approval are greatly increased if he realizes that you are thoroughly informed about this new technology. Most doctors, at this time, are not highly enthusiastic about this treatment option because even though it is FDA approved and reimbursed by Medicare and most insurance companies, it is not regarded as nearly as profitable as the invasive procedures. So, it's quite natural that they will often try to guide you away from EECP to an invasive procedure and this is especially true if they do not even have an EECP machine installed at their clinic. You need to be aware that studies have shown that the number of hospitalizations and emergency room visits are significantly decreased in a 12 month period after EECP treatment compared to that number 12 months prior to the EECP treatment. Study these links! www.eecp.com EECP has another advantage which very few patients(even some cardiologists)
fail to know about or appreciate.... EECP has been shown repeatedly to be
able to improve ENDOTHELIAL FUNCTION. IT HAS ALSO BEEN SHOWN THAT ENDOTHELIAL
DYSFUNCTION WILL OFTEN PRECEDE THE DEVELOPMENT OF HEART DISEASE AND MAY CONTINUE
TO AGGRAVATE IT AS LONG AS THIS UNDERLYING CONDITION REMAINS UNTREATED. NO
INVASIVE PROCEDURE PERFORMED ON HEART PATIENTS TODAY IS CAPABLE OF REVERSING
ENDOTHELIAL DYSFUNCTION. THIS MEANS THAT EECP HAS AN EXCLUSIVE PATIENT ADVANTAGE
OVER THE INVASIVE PROCEDURES. And sadly, far too many cardiologists have
failed to utilize this feature for their patient's welfare. To really grasp
how crucially important this may be to your own health, please read the following
article: http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/111/3/363 62 yr old female: I had a triple bypass on
Mar 24,'06 with at-rest chest pains two months later. Triple stent to the
bypassed LAD, which had restenosed;
unable to even visualize the diagonal or its bypass! The diagonal is too
small to stent and am now off beta blockers, as it started to cause bloating.
Now I'm
experiencing chest pains again and came to realize that a couple of weeks
of chest discomfort were really angina symptoms. (Taking a nitro sublingual
yesterday
helped during one such episode!) I am looking at the EECP treatment and would
like to hear from anyone who has had this 35 treatment course. It's very
expensive and I will probably have to battle my insurance company for approval.
Certainly,
slowing down is a must but I am confronted with a new scenario bi-monthly,
it seems. Cardiac rehab has become a slow bike ride to stay within the "anginal
threshold"! Keeping an upbeat mental attitude is a challenge but so far so
good. Any input
about the EECP would be appreciated! There was someone who
posted that he had a good experience with EECP. I wonder if you could
please respond
to the following. I did EECP once last year, all 35 treatments. It
took
two months, but with no real success at all in removing my angina
that I have had continuously now for 18 months post stenting. But I
have
heard that the second attempt at EECP sometimes works like a charm,
and does help. What is your experience. Did your first session help
you at all, or did the second. You indicated that you have done a
session each year for 4 years. Just post or e-mail me at j@jgreenwald.com
Thanx. I'm going to have
my third (3rd) year of EECP next month. I have had 2 of my 4 (2003)
grafts block up. I find
that an early warning sign for me is a slight burning sensation in
my chest. Each of the last 2 times it has gone away after my 35 treatments.
I have been back 8 times to correct blockages with little help. This
way seems to be the best for me. It has kept me OUT of the hospital
for over 2 yrs now. I believe. I have changed my diet, become more
active and PRAY. I'm 49 yrs young. I give it 2 thumbs up. Please and
Thanx, Bogie For the physician,
the main disadvantage of EECP is that the reimbursement is far too
little for the time and
expense required for a cardiology clinic to extend this service.
Hopefully, this will change in the very near future. For the patient
the main
disadvantage is that the treatment is 1 hour a day, 5 days a week
for
7 weeks. Because this may be temporarily inconvenient, some patients
may opt for 2 hours treatment a day for 3 1/2 weeks. Non-invasive
EECP treatment is effective, very safe and inexpensive relative to
invasive
procedures. This should be enough to make it a viable option for
angina and/or heart failure patients but it has another advantage
which very
few patients(even some cardiologists) fail to know about or appreciate....
EECP has been shown repeatedly to be able to improve ENDOTHELIAL
FUNCTION. IT HAS ALSO BEEN SHOWN THAT ENDOTHELIAL DYSFUNCTION WILL
OFTEN PRECEDE
THE DEVELOPMENT OF HEART DISEASE AND MAY CONTINUE TO AGGRAVATE
IT AS LONG AS THIS UNDERLYING CONDITION REMAINS UNTREATED. To really
grasp
how crucially important this may be to your own health, please
read the following
article: http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/111/3/363 Rehana Mushtaq Heart clinic was established
in 1993 in Lahore, Pakistan. We specialize in dealing with complicated & rejected
heart patients. Our clinic is a ray of hope for hopeless heart patients.Dr
javaid sabzwari.contact syedjavaidmushtaq@hotmail.com guys I am hearing that
it is being used extensively in china for Stroke.....Does anybody
has a personal experience!! Is
it good for overall mortality/morbidity or does it have any acute effects
??? good morning everybody
if any one is interested in purchase of ecp machine or providing
services we can help ypu and
we have ultimate heart scanner which can give you olt of patients mail
at jkdistributors@vsnl.com or www.myheart.in You should look into
EECP or Enhanced External Counterpulsation. It's a procedure that
is approved by the FDA. Whether
you've done the angioplasty or not you should look into it. Just type
EECP in your Google search. You can actually grow collateral arteries.
Also, check out Dr. Julian Whitaker's Wellness Institute. hi , i would like to
buy one ecp machine in india. can manufacturers send me the details?
Dr.ahmed. my email id
is ahad23mpl@indiatimes.com As the physicians slowly
recognizing ecp treatment the need for ecp equipment is increasing
we with three years experience
in giving ecp treatment at premiere institutes in cardiology in india
have developed a indian brand with quality as good as that of western
products and technology know how from china , we are giving onsite
warranty with parts replacement and amc in subsequent years. the product
is indian manufacturing with all the latest features ,please feel free
to enquire for details contact cardiopulse_ecp1@yahoo.com For patients who are
trying to get a better understanding of why their doctors fail to
mention to them the FDA
approved , CMS reimbursed, non-invasive treatment option for Class
III and IV angina i.e., Enhanced External Counterpulsation: Read the
following article and you will understand. It is informative, easy
to understand, humerous and above all --- FAIR AND BALANCED. Enjoy!
http://heartdisease.about.com/cs/ coronarydisease/a/EECP.htm Hi Mr.Manoj...What
king of scanner is it...what is the mechanism behing it.....what
are you testing post-EECP......send
me an E-brochure if you have....my email-aarushmanchanda@yahoo.co.in
Thanks we are marketing heart
scanner which can show you the differance between pre and post ecp
theraphies done by your
machine contact for detail www.myheart.in jkdistmanoj@ricmail.com Response to Arush Manchanda April 25th Post: "I
read somewhere that there is some benefit in memory and renal function......Are
there any studies to suggest that.... " Yes! Google it up! And, I can
tell you this: Apparently, the treatment restores diuretic responsiveness.
On my last EECP treatment, I had stopped taking furosemide months earlier
simply because it was not working and I was afraid of further degrading
my glomerular filtration rate (GFR). But it seems the EECP treatment
may tone up the kidneys and may help them respond to the diuretic left
over in the body on a cellular level. I dropped 13 lbs in my first
week!!! Regarding the PEECH Trial, there is an additional article soon
(1-6 months) to be published on that trial. You should try to read
it when it comes out. A very informativce book came out last year called "Heal
Your Heart with EECP" by Dr. Debra Braverman, M.D. You can find it
at Amazon or any of the finer book stores. You can sample read many
of the pages at the Amazon website-- so you might want to start there. Responce to John Fetter's
comment on March 1st, 2006 Not entirely John. I should have stated that the
FDA gave their approval to Vasomedical's EECP System, with a new and
different bell and whistle, for the indication of angina on a 510K
which proved equivalency to the Cardiomedics product that had been
approved years earlier. I should also explain that EECP is a registered
trademark for Vasomedical's ECP system and that while all EECP products
are regarded as ECP, no other ECP product may be regarded as EECP.
In 2003 the FDA approved EECP for congestive heart failure based on
all of the EECP studies and data that showed its safety and efficacy.
This time, it was Cardiomedics and Nicore that quickly followed and
gained approval for CHF for their systems as well, but with a 510K
which proved equivalency. I think it would be best if everyone in the
future refrains from this sort of posting. It's not, IMO, really helpful
and it's not what these patients are interested in or need. Okay? Gerald
Oros Collinsville, IL Is anyone aware of
non-cardiac beneficial effects of EECP....I read somewhere that there
is some benefit in memory
and renal function......Are there any studies to suggest that.... I
am not very impressed by the cardiac effects.....as EECP failed to
show increase in the Peak Oxygen Consumption in the only randomised
control trial on EECP -the PEECH trial and it did not increase myocardial
perfusion according to another latest trial. I guess it may be an important
palliative measure for chest pain relief for those who are not candidates
for PCI/Bypass .Does anyone have any comments....... Super External Counterpulsation
Therapy Systems (SECP), made in china. http://www.gzgz.net/eecp i want to know more about arterial clearance
therapy & external counterpulsation "Well, that's all
well and good but the FDA actually gave their approval for the EECP/ECP
treatment in 1995!!!!! " -This quote is entirely incorrect. FDA approved
Cardiomedics, Inc. ECP in 1986, they are the first ECP company, dating
back to Harvard and MIT in the 60's. Vasomedical came into existence
because Cardiomedics made it possible, Vasomedical bought a piece of
Cardiomedic's equipment, shipped it to China and had it mass produced.
Mr. Bhavesh Ghadiyali, please contact me about your desire for an effective
ECP system for your practice in India. Here is a link to our website
for more information: http://www.cardiomedics.com Thanks.
John Fetter 949-606-5712 I have started eecp
in fresno,ca for patients who has documented bypass graft closures
on maximal medical therapy
with continued angina or angina equivalent.The response is very good
and patients thank you for offering this therapy. Cardiopulse is the
company manuf ecp in india at new delhi, we are giving excellent
after sale service with very
competent price Mr Ghadiyali: You
may contact their Chief Tehnical Officer, John Hui, MD at Jhui@vasomedical.com.
He will be
glad to help you. R. P. Kowolski: EECP
creates an improvement in angina symptoms of 1 class or better in
about 80% of the patients.
20% may not improve that much or may not respond at all. Generally,
patients with severe pre-existing endothelial dysfunction will find
that the efficacy of their treatments may be blunted. My clinic does
not allow the use of coffee or any caffeine containing products prior
to treatment. If you were having morning coffee it might explain why
your results weren't better. Doctors I have talked to, believe that
some patients simply require more hours of treatment. Next time, insist
on 45 hours. If your doctor is not amenable to your need, seek another
provider site that will be more willing to help you. Good luck with
the gene therapy trial. Let us know how that worked out. We need EECP machine
for heart hospital in india. I have not any contact for that. Please
give me some address
for that. FORUM USER ALERT: The
Center of Medicare & Medicaid Services (U.S. goverment) is currently
re-evaluating ECP therapy for expanded indications and reimbursement.
If you are a patient or healthcare professional and wish to share your
ECP experience (positive or negative) where it was used for treatment
of severe angina where other medical or surgical treatments did not
or could not help, then you may send
a public comment to CMS. This is a chance to directly influence
a medical issue that you may have a strong feeling about. The closing
date for these comments is coming up next week, on January 20. More
information about the decision to expand coverage can
be found on the CMS website. I must share my latest
experience in treating Refractory/Terminal cardiac with EECP.Mr YPK
a 78yr old frail man was
referred to me by a reputed hospital in North India.He was bedridden
since 6months- and not without reason. He was an old case of CAD/CABG
done in 1991 and in cardiac failure since last 4years.He also had bilateral
pleural effusion, ascites,Septic arthritis,Diabetes,Benign Hypertrophy
Prostate,Parkinsonism, Hypoprotenemia and went into repeated episodes
of LVF daily.He was on maximum antifailure therapy including 300mg
Spironolactone,100mg Frusemide(Lasix).His ejection Fraction was a feeble
17%. No Surgeon or for that matter Physician would touch him. We took
him up as a challange case on 02 Sept 2005 and gave him two, one hour
sittings of EECP daily.On 16 Sept his Ejection Fraction had improved
to 28% and by the time he finished 35 hrs of EECP he had an EF of 32%.
His breathing improved and miraculously the dose of Spironolactone
reduced to 25mg and Laxis to 20mg per day. So EECP CERTAINLY improves
failure in end stage cases,improves quality of life and reduces doses
of Diuretics. I recently underwent
35 ECP sessions, and while I can say I 'feel better', my nitro usage
hasn't gone down, and
I still have early morning/late night angina episodes. My teadmill
tolereance went from 10 minutes to less than 4 minutes. At $40 a co-pay,
I would've like a more optimistic outcome. I suppose now I'll have
to get into a gene therapy clinical trial. ECP may be a bit over-sold
IMO. we are the manufacturer
of ecp world class equipment in india with hassel free maintenance
services, for competent
price contact us Why treatment with
EECP may benefit patients with angina pectoris. Your heart pumps
blood through your entire body
to supply tissues with the oxygen and other nutrients they need. In
order to do this, the heart itself needs oxygen-enriched blood to generate
the energy it requires. Because the heart muscle is unable to obtain
this energy directly form the blood it pumps, it relies upon its own
set of blood vessels-the coronary arteries-for oxygen-enriched blood.
The coronary arteries are distinct from other arteries in the body
in that maximal blood flow occurs during diastole (when the heart is
relaxing) while other arteries receive most of their blood supply during
systole (when the heart is contracting). This is because when the heart
contracts, the coronary vessels are squeezed and cannot carry enough
blood at that time. In some people, the coronary arteries can become
narrowed or obstructed so that during exercise or stressful situations,
an insufficient amount of oxygen-enriched blood is able to reach some
parts of the heart muscle. Often, the results is a painful experience
called angina pectoris. for further detail contact Dr.Farhat Haseeb.
EECP consultant Karachi .0333-2288225 Dr.Rathore 0333-2327969 Dr.Faisal
zia 0300-8221767 EECP Consultant A ray of hope for cadiac
patients, a non-invasive ,US-FDA approved EECP treatment currently
available @ Kamal hospital
Karachi, pakistan, contact9221-8250386,0333-2288225, 0333-2327969 Indication
of EECP : 1.angina refractory to medical treatment. 2.Post-CABG angina.
3.Post-PCI (angioplasty) angina. 4.patient not willing for bypass surgery.
5.Heart failure. The following is an
amazing story of an 80 year old physician who, after failing to relieve
his angina with repeated
invasive procedures settled on something which has worked very well
for him. This news story originally ran on 11-29-05 but is now being
picked up by other newspapers across the country along with many internet
news websites. I have chosen to submit this to the forum because I
know for a fact that there are so very few angina patients that know
anything about this safe and effective, non- invasive treatment option
for angina that is FDA approved and CMS re-imbursed... Doctors can't
say why it works, but some patients swear by the results. http://www.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment/orl-heart2905nov29,0,2107615.story Matt Wiseman: Just
contact www.vasomedical.com They
should have a list of provider sites. Earl -- both ECP and EECP are similar. ECP is the generic term for "External Counterpulsation". EECP adds an "enhanced". It is a registered trademark of Vasomedical and is explained on their website, as follows:
Hope this clears it up. Does anyone know of
a EECP site in the Phoenix Metro Area of Arizona, USA? What is the difference
between ECP and EECP? I am now taking ECP therapy, I think. Gerald -- Thanks for the accurate info below
about the EECP/Quackwatch discussion. I guess the reason we couldn't
find anything on Quackwatch about EECP was precisely because QW had
removed the incorrect article several years ago in response to posters
contacting them -- and it's a great example of the power of the internet.
Sure, companies have always had "complaint departments" but
the complaints were entered into a closed hidden system. On message
boards, everything's out there and things sometimes gain a momentum
for change. You're absolutely correct that Vasomedical's first EECP
device was approved for use by the FDA in 1995. In fact, as a result
of the PEECH trial, presented
at this year's ACC, and other studies Vasomedical has
requested that Medicare expand the range of conditions for which
EECP can be reimbursed. We think Quackwatch can provide useful information,
but they clearly erred in this case. We would hope that if our readers
find errors on Angioplasty.Org, that they would let us know as well
-- including new therapies. After all, it was less than 30 years ago
that the idea of expanding a balloon inside of someone's coronary artery
was considered complete quackery -- an extremely dangerous idea! Turned
out that it WAS dangerous -- to the hegemony of
open heart bypass surgery for the treatment of coronary artery disease. Dear Forum Editor:
About 2-3 years ago, a poster on one of the EECP message boards reported
that he had noticed
EECP was one of the treatments listed on the Quackwatch List at Quackbusters.
Several other posters contacted Quackbusters and pointed out that EECP
was FDA approved as an effective treatment for angina. Their forum
mgr said he would check to confirm that this was true and EECP was
removed from their list the next day. Well, that's all well and good
but the FDA actually gave their approval for the EECP/ECP treatment
in 1995!!!!! Apparently it was on their watch list improperly for for
some 7 years or longer and no one ever called the error to their attention.
I think folks may have some justification for being skeptical of the
Quackbusters themselves... Dear Clyde -- I'm not sure where you saw that
Quackwatch said negative things about EECP. They don't have anything
on their site about EECP. A comment we made in the past was referring
to "chelation therapy" or the various artery clearing treatments
being hawked, not EECP. We're sorry if we were not clearer about this.
In fact there have been a number of studies showing that EECP is a
valid therapy -- quite respectable (as your insurance carrier also
believes). One of the pioneering companies Vasomedical exhibits
at the major cardiology meetings (TCT, ACC, etc.) and these meetings
are not interested in "quackery". Qwackwatch is a little
off his kilter when it comes to EECP and ECP, although it hasn't
been a complete remedy
for me, I don't think I would be alive today without it. If my stingy
insurance company pays for it, there must be good medical evidence
that it works. In fact, they made me dig up the evidence and appeal
a denial before they would approve it. I think Quacker should do a
little more study on how it works and why it works, before he makes
a quacking fool of himself. You might want to
read the informative article about some re-clotting problems with
drug eluting stents that appeared
in the October 21st issue of this year's Wall Street Journal. Some
patients are having their stents get clogged when their doctors take
them off of the Plavix or when the patient just forgets to keep taking
it. At $150.00 a month at the local Walgreen Pharmacy, some patients
just can't afford to take it for the rest of their lives and some may
have problems when they try to stop the medication because of the prohibitive
cost. According to the article these complications are seen in no more
than 1% of the patients -- but of that 1%, there is a stunning 45%
mortality rate associated with this small group. When you consider
that 3,000,000 patients have already received drug eluting stents worldwide
and that some doctors fear the patients' experiencing these problems
may actually exceed 1%, you are looking at a minimum of some 15,000
unexpected deaths and perhaps a great deal more. I think it might be
prudent for the cardiology community to to consider screening patients
for sensitivity to the drug Plavix before rushing in to place the stent/stents.
Once they're in there and problems arise in those unfortunate few,
there doesn't seem to be much they can do about it. One doctor, who
is associated with Vasomedical, the company that makes the EECP machines
approved for treating angina, told me once that EECP helps improve
the outcome of angioplasties. While he did not explain how or why that
would be so, I do know that EECP treatments can help improve endothelial
function in some patients. Mayo Clinic studies showed that to be the
case. Improved endothelial function. by improving vascular system tone,
might contribute to reducing vascular stiffness. It can also increase
the body's producton of the enzyme, endothelial nitric oxide synthase
(eNOS), which enables the body to convert arginine into nitric oxide
(NO) which enables the vascular system to dilate, which increases blood
flow and oxygen delivery to oxygen deprived areas of the body, which
would include the heart and the walls of the vascular system. I guess
help from EECP treatments would all depend on whether your endothelial
system was dysfunctional or not to begin with -- but I guess patients
need to ask their doctor about such things. And, I think doctors who
need to tell them about such thing, in general, may not yet fully appreciate
how a dysfunctional endothelium can upset vascular homeostasis and
directly contribute to the development of atherosclerosis and cardiovascular
disease. I have been running
an EECP center at Amritsar India since the last two years. I have
achieved a success rate of 95%
in relieving angina and dyspnoea/failure in my patients.Not a single
one of my patients have needed bypass surgery so far.I feel that most
EECP centers in the world do only EECP and nothing else. We at Randhawa
Hospital,Amritsar have a comprihensive programme which includes Aggressive
lipid lowering, weight reduction, exercise programme, diet therapy,
yoga sessions in addition to EECP. CAD is a relentless, progressive,
multifactorial disease. No single mode of treatment is likely to achieve
more than 70% success rate. A multidimentional, comprehensive and committed
approach has achieved a 95%success rate at our hospital. ecp device at the most
competent rate in india we are the manufacturers of ecp device in
india and looking for distributors
or buyers , please mention your complete details if interested. You can undergo some
safe, non-invasive treatments like External Counter Pulsation (ECP)
or Artery Clearance Therapy (ACT)
/ Chelation Therapy. You can see details on www.sssibia.com There is an ECP-EECP
forum in yahoo. My latest round of ECP was in India. ECP-EECP-subscribe@yahoogroups.com dear sir/ madam, my
name is sukhooram, my cabg was done in 1997 and at 8th post cabg
day i had another mi and
in march 2005 i had another non st elevated mi and then angio was done
that showed 100% blockade and i was advised to have eecp treatment.i
was quite well during procedure and one month after that, but now since
20 days i had two severe episodes of short of breath and signs of heart
failur .so now i want to know that why im having these types of attacks
and is this treatment failure? actually i need answer! Please let me know
which institutions are providing the service of EECP in india. Early
response will be highly
appreciated Was diagnosed with
100% occluded LAD in April 2004. I have had a series of EECP in addition
with chelation therapy
and plaquex and I am at the moment completely pain free and I am no
longer on any medication. Dear Sir/Madam. My
name is Keith, I found your contact information from a website. My
family have a factory in
China is producing the ECP unit, if you have interest of it, please
feel free to contact me, I will more than happy to answer you question.
E-mail: keithjie2001@yahoo.com Tel: 001-416-278-9979 Warm regards.
Keith I work for a company
that specializes in EECP treatment and we have the ability to install
our centers anywhere
in the country to fit patient needs. EECP is a non invasive way to
relieve your body from angina or angina equivalents. Log onto our website www.fwheatcare.com or
email dan@fwheartcare.com.
Take control of your life again, talk to your local doctor or cardiologist
to see if this is right for you. I would just like to
chime in that while studies are ongoing in terms of EECP, and there
are data that show efficacy
of this treatment, chelation therapy has pretty much been debunked
and is, in fact, discussed in more detail on Quackwatch. You can undergo some
safe, non-invasive treatments like External Counter Pulsation ECP)
or Artery Clearance Therapy (ACT)
/ Chelation Therapy. You can see details on www.sssibia.com I got a stent and
EECP, then two months later the LAD totally occluded but my saving
factor was strong collaterals.
I went for another round of EECP which didn't seem to help a lot so
went to Moscow for GM-CSF shots. My nitro usage has dropped from 30-40
to 4-5 per day and I have reduced medications by a third. I don't believe
this therapy is available in the dumb USA, but it worked for me. I
am still not out of the woods, but am far better. John Baldock You ask a great question John!
Why indeed? Could it be that the EECP procedure is so much less expensive
than the invasive procedures and is therefore much less profitable
to the physician and hospital? Sadly, your situation is not uncommon.
Something must be done. Lets all just wake up and "smell the coffers" in
this situation. Suggest that you log onto www.vasomedical.com and
request the free Larry King Video on EECP to learn about why EECP works
so well, then pass it on to a neighbor. I had quintuple (5)
coronary by-pass surgery. Because of failed grafts shortly after
surgery had 3 additional angioplasties.
Placed on beta-blockers, nitro and other drugs to no avail. Thought
my life was over until I found out and went through 35 EECP treatments.
Life has returned to a semi normal existence. EECP gave me great results
from a non-invasive procedure. Why didn't medical science offer EECP
to me first, and save my native arteries and all the scars and pain
associated with surgery? I also had problems
after a stent placement The doctor said that I didn't have pain because
of good test results.
I went and saw another doctor and started EECP Enhanced External Counter
pulsation and solved all problems
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