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Current Postings on This Page (17):
• Ray -- Maybe we're going to have to start a new
topic on EDTA, a.k.a. chelation therapy, Artery Clearance Therapy (ACT)
etc. since we're getting a number of queries. As far as we know, there
are no randomized clinical trials or peer-reviewed articles in major cardiology
journals showing efficacy of these therapies. However, an NIH-sponsored
study was begun back in 2002 and is still recruiting. The Trial
to Assess Chelation Therapy (TACT) won't be finished recruiting until
2009 (they have 163 centers). We look forward to the results, but as of
now, there's no real data to show this therapy is valid. The danger is
that patients will self-treat (and spend money on the drugs) and avoid
the proven therapies.
As for Ascorsine-9, we don't know much about it, except
that it seems to be a formulation of essential vitamins and some other
ingredients. But we did note on a supplier's website the following: "WARNINGS:
Anyone taking anti-coagulation drugs should not take this product",
so we would be very wary of Ascorsine-9 for heart patients who may well
be taking anti-coagulation or anti-platelet drugs. Talk to your cardiologist
about this.
Forum Editor, Angioplasty.Org, February 28, 2008
• May I have comments on the use of artery cleaners
EDTA ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid and/or Ascorsine-9 nine months after
double bypass surgery.
Ray G., Georgia, USA, February 10, 2008
• My brother had 4x CABG 1 year ago. He had a very
hard time healing and his angina is back at 6 months from smoking (we think)
and had an angiogram at 6 months that was clean. Of course, he took it
from that that he could keep smoking. As it turns out, we just find out
he has not been taking an aspirin a day or his blood pressure meds. His
blood pressure is good though at 120/70. Surprising but true. I am very
concerned that the longer he doesn't take the prescribed drugs, the faster
he will need additional treatment. He really thinks that the meds were
making him worse because now his BP is good! However he is taking Protonix
and 4 tums a day to try to help the burning under his sternum. The doctor
just keeps saying, your pictures at 6 months were clean, so you are in
good shape. The dr is ignoring the burning under the sternum - knowing
he has stopped meds. HELP!! Any suggestions? He is only 50 years old and
has lost his desire to keep fighting.
K.R., New York, USA, October 15, 2007
• Russana -- look up our Forum
Topic on EECP for more info.
Name, State, USA, October 13, 2007
• Can someone please help. My father who is 69 years
old had a bypass 6 months ago and has been in an out of hospital since
the operation, which has seen no positive result. He is currently in hospital
and having ongoing angina attacks, up to 3 per day, often when he is asleep.
I have read about EECP on the internet and am very interested in this treatment
for him. We live in Sydney Australia, does anyone know whether this treatment
in offered in Australia?
Russana, Sydney, Australia, October 10, 2007
• Hi, i am a 52 year old male and weigh 128 kg.have
had 2 stents, a by-pass in 1995 and 2006. I will be contacting my cardiologist
monday next week for an appointment as i am experiencing swelling of my
feet which never happened before, heart beating irregular and wonder if
i am nor in the early stages of heart failure as the swelling is excessive.
I do cardio exercise each day for 1 hour and drink 2 litres of water whilst
exercising... Is the fluid intake to rapid in that period...? I am a very
active person working my 14 hours per day up and down and wonder if the
fact that i am so active, also be the cause. Would appreciate your comment.
Johan Stapelberg, Brooklyn Holdings, South Africa, August 25, 2007
• Gerald -- you certainly are an EECP evangelist
(by the way, Angioplasty.Org's Forum has a
topic devoted to EECP). And the treatment has been shown to help some
patients who still experience chest pain if it is not relieved by drugs,
angioplasty or surgery. And this is not a small number: the recent COURAGE
trial showed that 1 in 4 patients still had chest pain after 5 years. The
general theory that vascular disease and blockages are at least partially
a result of endothelial dysfunction is pretty well accepted. The big question
is what causes this and how best to treat it. You're correct in saying
that interventional procedures don't improve this dysfunction systemically.
We (and the physicians who pioneered this field) always say, angioplasty
is a mechanical solution to a biological problem. One of the positive aspects
of the COURAGE trial was that modern medical therapy (statins, beta-blockers,
etc.) seemed to have a definite systemic effect and low-risk stable patients
did very well without any intervention. There is much research going on
into how best to restore endothelial function. EECP has had several clinical
trials which have shown some benefit in certain patients -- and you and
your friend are definitely in that category. But overall, the trials have
not shown EECP to be "the cure" we're all waiting for. Which
is not to say it's not valuable and most definitely under-utilized. The
Minneapolis Heart Institute at Abbott Northwestern has a whole program
to treat patients who have not responded to the mainstream therapies. Called OPTIMIST,
it offers a range of solutions, one of which is EECP.
Forum Editor, Angioplasty.Org, May 4, 2007
• John S, patient, Brisbane, Australia: John, many
of your questions and concerns can be answered by reading my post to Jack
D. but let me personally address these: "You mention some going 3-5 years
without need for re-treatment. Are these people you know or have you just
been told this?" I was told this by technicians and cardiologists at the
two different provider sites I attended to receive my 4 x 35 hour courses
of treatment. One EECP patient Tom is now about 87 years old. I made his
acquaintance on a financial message board. He is a highly intelligent man
and is in very good health today, probably in BETTER HEALTH today than
he was 10-15 years ago when he was receiving repeat angioplasties and major
CABG procedures. He swims and works out almost daily at their local YMCA's
gym and pool. He will easily swim the length of their pool underwater regularly.
We email one another weekly, often exchanging information which helps us
better understand all of EECP's mechanisms of action which, by the way,
are still highly misunderstood by many/most cardiologists. I am proud to
regard Tom as a good friend although we have never personally met.
"Also I am concerned that in some instances EECP does
not work - why is this do you think?" A very fine cardiologist once explained
to me that he believed those 20-25% patients who have not responded to
35 hours of EECP treatment do so simply because they require many more
hours. The differences between individual patients are just too great to
expect them all to respond the same. Some patients require 45 hours, 60
hours or even 75 hours. Treated in this manner, you will see over 95% of
the patients regularly improve by one or more class. Patients who receive
EECP for Class III or IV angina caused by ischemic heart disease will almost
always have a pre-existing state of endothelial dysfunction and a loss
of vascular homeostasis. In this disease state (which cardiologists seem
to ignore), the vascular system has become inflamed and constricted. This
seems to be a precursor to full blown atherosclerosis which will then accelerate
the progression of ischemic cardiovascular disease. In this inflamed and
constricted state, vascular lesions will develop throughout the entire
vascular tree. As the body attempts to heal these vascular lesions they
may become covered with something very similar to a scab or a sore on,
for example, your arm or leg. In endothelial dysfunction, the vascular
wall, being very constricted, makes those lesions more susceptible to rupture.
Patients in this condition are often rushed to the hospital and DESed with
off label use of a $30,000.00 stent. Their symptoms may be quickly improved
but the underlying endothelial dysfunction which caused the inflammation,
the constriction, the lesions and the ruptured lesions will remain a threat
because, to my knowledge, invasive procedures will do nothing to treat
the underlying endothelial dysfunction and the loss of vascular homeostasis.
But now get this! EECP treatment will not only improve the the symptoms
of angina and ischemic heart disease but it has also been shown in multiple
studies to REVERSE ENDOTHELIAL DYSFUNCTION and to the degree that it does
this IT WILL ALSO RESTORE VASCULAR HOMEOSTASIS. This means that EECP may
decrease pro-inflammatory cytokines while increasing anti-inflammatory
cytokines which means less vascular inflammation, less constriction and
a more stable vascular system. Following this cascade of vascular events,
we can by logical extension, expect then, to see FEWER ruptured lesions.
With FEWER lesions rupturing, we should expect to see FEWER new blockages,
FEWER embolisms, FEWER strokes, FEWER MIs, FEWER hospitalizations and yes,
even a REDUCED mortality rate. All of this should proceed from EECP's effect
of REVERSING ENDOTHELIAL DYSFUNCTION. And again, this is something that
invasive procedures, by themselves cannot do. If you still have questions,
I would be happy to help you. Please email me at postman23_2000@yahoo.com. [Note:
posting has been edited for length]
Gerald Oros, Collinsville IL, May 3, 2007
• Sorry I should have said 14 stents, ex-smoker,
quadruple bypass (she quit 1 year ago) but that does not make her an official "non-smoker" yet.
I believe you have to be clean for a while before you get that label.
Jack D., New York, USA, May 1, 2007
• Jack D: Geeze Jack! Don't you think it's high
time you and your wife stood your ground and made some some of these decisions
yourselves? You're going to get nothing but more of the same from your
doctor. So what other treatment options does your wife have? Your doctor,
if he is responsible, should have already told you. There is the FDA approved,
Medicare reimbursed, NON-INVASIVE treatment option called Enhanced External
Counterpulsation also referred to as EECP or ECP.
You can learn everything you need to know about this
in the next 15 minutes by going to www.vasomedical.com and clicking on
the DVD for patients to immediately view what, how and why this therapy
is so safe and effective for relieving angina. At this late stage of treatment,
it was very, very wrong of your cardiologist to not inform your wife of
this option but instead -- continue to inflict more and more invasive procedures
upon her which obviously are not helping her but which is making him very,
very wealthy. But don't be too hard on your doctor because as I estimate
it more than 95% of the other invasive cardiologi$t$ are doing the $ame
thing. Now, don't misunderstand me, most of these invasive procedures produce
good results right away and the patients will receive good symptomatic
relief. But no one should be subjected to 14 stents, a CABG and then still
want to do another damned angiogram!!! Jack, believe me please! Sit down
with your wife and watch the DVD called "Straight From the Heart" ASAP!
If, after watching that film and you feel that your wife wants to try it.
Ask your cardiologist to arrange for the 7 or the 3 1/2 week course of
treatment. If he tries to discourage you from trying it, get another doctor!
You see the cost for a course of EECP treatment, more often than not, runs
less than the sales tax for a single bypass surgery. Prescribing EECP is
not as profitable as sawing open a patient's chest. I'm sure you both get
the picture!
If, after viewing the film, you still have questions,
I would be happy to help you. Please email me at postman23_2000@yahoo.com.
BTW, I am an angina patient with ischemic heart disease. I had my first
course of EECP 4 years ago and the results were so good I chose to have
it repeated for the next 3 years. I will take my 5th course of treatment
this Summer ---- so I think I know a little something about EECP and I
can give you some tips of how to get even better results from it if you're
interested.
Gerald Oros, Collinsville, Illinois, USA, May 1, 2007
• Gerald O., Illinois. You mention having had EECP,
as an alternative to CABG. I am at the stage of considering my options
and this treatment a possibility. Can you tell us your condition (angina,
number of blockages and symptoms) which led to the treatment and how soon
after starting you saw some improvement? You mention some going 3-5 years
without need for re-treatment. Are these people you know or have you just
been told this? Also I am concerned that in some instances EECP does not
work - why is this do you think? Best Regards.
John S., patient, Brisbane, Australia, May 1, 2007
• To Jack D. in NY: several months after just one
stent, I observed pain whenever inhaling a cigarette. Ok, the solution
was a no brainer, I quit smoking and the pain went away. Done. You write
that your wife had 14 stents, quadruple bypass, but she continues to smoke
and she is (even otherwise) resisting her doctor? Hello? Please show your
wife all the warnings on those cigarette packages, they are serious.
Tom, Encinitas, California, USA, April 30, 2007
• My wife, 43 yrs old, diabetic, smoker had a quadruple
bypass 5 mos ago. This was after 14 stents to the RCA in an 18 mos period
and during that time span an MI from a clot. 3 mos after the CABG, her
angina pains slowly returned and at 5 mos they are in full swing. She gets
pressure with exertion and without. When her blood sugars are low she gets
intense chest pressure as well as a burning pain directly under her sternum.
The Dr says an angiogram is indicated. She is resisting. Anyone else had
these issues?
Jack D., New York, USA, April 29, 2007
• I would suggest looking into the possibility of
having a blood sugar problem and not knowing about it. My wife, age 43,
after experiencing severe unstable angina, was given 4 DES in Nov. 05.
She continued having angina, although less severe, and was very dissatisfied
with the doctors telling her that her case was so exceptional that they
could not explain it, only stating that she may be having coronary artery
spasms. Since than she has had 5 heart caths done and 4 more stents inserted
inside of the ordinal stents because of restenosis and also had a blood
clot form that required a balloon to clear her stent that resulted in the
stent becoming fractured. Her family doctor decided to test her for insulin
resistance and we were quite surprised to learn that, yes, she does have
this syndrome. It is also known as Metabolic Syndrome or Syndrome X. It
has the tendencies for forming clots and causing plaque to build up in
the coronary arteries. We recommend the book "Syndrome X The silent killer".
We have just started her diet change so we cannot report any success yet
but are very hopeful that this is the cause of her continuing problems.
Good luck and we hope that this may give you another avenue to explore.
Paul S., Michigan, USA, February 15, 2007
• Pam, Lafayette, Louisiana Pam, there is a very
safe, non-invasive procedure which is FDA approved for the treatment of
Class III and IV angina pain. Medicare will reimburse for it and it is
covered by most, but not all, insurance companies. It is presently reserved
in most cases for patients who fail to respond properly to the invasive
surgeries and angioplasties/stents. The name of this treatment is Enhanced
External Counterpulsation or EECP and/or ECP. If you will go to www.vasomedical.com
and watch their video tape, you will learn how and why it works. It does
require some commitment from the patient as they have to receive this treatment
5 hours a day for 7 weeks. The treatment is comfortable enough to tolerate
and has a success rate of about 80% with 35 hours treatment. I have received
this treatment for my shortness of breath and angina pain with good results
but because my arthritic knees inhibit my ability to exercise, my symptoms
begin to return after about a year. So, I have chosen to get the treatment
yearly and have done so for the past 4 years. Most patients, however, are
able to go 3-5 years or more with just one course of treatment. Despite
its success record, physicians are not too quick to recommend it because
at the present rate of reimbursement (shamefully low), doctors find that
is is not very profitable and therefore, quite understandably, prefer to
keep using invasive procedures. The cost of a course of EECP is often less
than the sales tax for a single bypass surgery.... Stent placements run
5-6 times the cost of a course of EECP.... If he wants the EECP treatment,
he's going to have ask for it and then not be dissuaded if the doctors
then try to change his mind. He must be adamant yet respectful. If he can
do this most doctors will be glad to prescribe the treatment for him.
Gerald O., Illinois, USA, February 14, 2007
• My brother is 49 years old and has had triple
bypass about 8 months ago. He has seen very little improvement. Still very
short of breath and takes nitro several times a day. The doctors are just
beginning to figure out what's going on. Any similar cases out there?
Pam, Lafayette, Louisiana, USA, February 5, 2007
• J Norman-- Looks like you have been though an
ordeal... I am a clinical educator in a cath lab and I hope I can help.
It really is not quantifiable, your prognosis, from your story. You need
to take into account your symptoms and how often, how severe, etc. Regardless
of the number of blocked arteries, it is the heart muscles response and
amount of damage that is the important factor. Do you know the state of
your heart muscle (this can normally be diagnosed by a heart scan or during
cath). If your heart muscle is reasonable, then you need to continue with
your life, taking one step at a time, always being aware of your symptoms
and never ever stressing yourself physically. However, you need to stay
positive and mentally active. Your physician was perhaps slightly inaccurate
to tell you this was worse than cancer and I feel you have been given inadequate
information. You need to know what all this means in real terms and how
it will affect your life? There are new advances in cardiology all the
time, pharmacological and medical interventions such as cath lab things
and you have the right to be know if these will apply to you. I hope I
have helped ...and not confused you. You should know that I have seen many
patients in your position and they have developed a good relationship with
their cardiologist and have learned to live within their means ....and
enjoy it!!
Andrina, Prince Sultan Cardiac Centre, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia,
February 10, 2002
• 58 Female -- had triple bypass Oct 18, 2001.
All attending physicians stated my surgery was a success and I went home
in 2 days. On Jan 18, 2002 I experienced severe chest pain and went to
the emergency room. The ER doctor conferred with my cardiologist and decided
I should undergo a cardiac cath to see what was going on. On Jan 19 after
the procedure my cardiologist reported to my family and I that 1 graft
has completely blown, graft 2 had 90% blockage in which he placed a stent,
graft 3 had approx. 95% blockage and a balloon procedure was done. It was
explained to my family and I that my arteriosclerosis was so severe that
it caused this all to occur (in 3 months time) and that my prognosis was
very poor. He even stated that it was worse than that of cancer. My physician
has left us with no hope and no options to explore. I am taking it upon
myself to find other avenues of treatment. If anyone has experienced this
and has any advice or encouragement let me know.
posted by J. Norman, Loudon, Tennessee, USA, January 20, 2002
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